I just saw this in the news.
Did not know any of that. I was rather shocked.
I am wondering if this is known in Europe?
I wonder what harm this practice could do if it were known in Europe/US?

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Life is a compromise

Given that Europe is the home of fois gras production and other dubious animal welfare practises, very little, I'd imagine. Glasshouses, stones and all that.

Really, first Europe is a continent and consist of more countries than just France,You maybe aware of it.
In Sweden farmers would go into jail for that.
And in my homeland also not possible.
Plus the environmental pollution they cause but this is a different story. Environmental terrorism I would call this anyway.
NZ is the country that criticises other countries for not treating animals properly...at the same time this.
You are right with glasshouses and stones...just the other way round

Every country that farms animals has complicated animal welfare issues to deal with. In Sweden, which you cite, there is currently public debate over whether keeping lambs inside in barns for most of their lives is cruel. Australian merino exporters are subject to boycott in several export markets over the practise of mulesing sheep. France, as you helpfully point out, continues to force-feed ducks and geese for foie-gras production. PETA's number one issue in the US is the McCruelty campaign aimed at convincing McDonald's to require its poultry suppliers to use controlled atmosphere slaughter.

These aren't simple issues to resolve anywhere. NZ does a lot of work on animal welfare in farming - like every other nation that exports animal products.

But Holly, you neglect to mention the branding of NZ as "Clean and Green." Therein lies the problem and one of the purposes of EE. "Green" is a very ambitious word and the world expects NZ to live up to the brand. Having lived in NZ, I understand the irony, but does the rest of the world?

In europe all countries follow the EU.


There are many things in NZ when it comes to animals that do upset europeans.
All kind of electric gears when it comes to transporting animals.
Electric dog collars and too small dog runs.
Bobby calf boxes along the road side.
Cows with cutt of tails.
Barb wire is not allowed any more.

NZers have been calling their country green for many years, long before it became a loaded term, simply because there is a lot of greenery here. I take your point that these days, it's a very hard term to live up to and I wouldn't claim NZ leads the way.

I don't think NZ has ever claimed to lead the way in animal welfare practises. There's the same dfficulty here in finding a balance between what makes money and what's a decent way to treat animals that there is in the US, Australia, UK and every other agricultural exporter.

New Zealanders are shocked at this practice and are as much concerned about animal welfare as any other country in the world. But, it all comes down to money - they simply cannot afford to buy with a conscience:


http://tvnz.co.nz/close-up/...ate-3681976/video

As with most things in NZ, it only changes when pressure is applied from the outside world.

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New Zealand. People who live in plaster houses shouldn't throw stones.

Reminds me of whaling. There has been the incredible outcry how evil the Japanese are. The whole nation was united. What was completely overlooked was that a few months ago some legislation was not passed that required fishermen to change their nets/fishing methods. The current method also kills a significant number of dolphins. To change the rules would have cost the fishing business money; hence dead dolphins are collateral damage. There was no moral outcry here in godzone over this at all. Here we go, criticizing others but at the same time doing something similar. The double standards are amazing here.
It's quite sad but understandable since profits are involved.

Rebel and Mozart, I don't know where you are, but it's clearly not the same country I live in. My local supermarket has about 10 different choices of egg by production method, from free range to barn raised to good old battery farmed. Across the road from it is a huge and thriving organics store. Of course NZers have choice in how, where and on what they spend their money, which they are vigorously exercising.

As for the whole country being united against Japan and whaling, what utter nonsense! A substantial number of people could not give a bugger about Japan or whaling.

Dolphin by-catch is a problem that the NZ fisheries industry is working actively to reduce. But before you malign NZ's internationally acclaimed fisheries regulation and quota management system, perhaps you should pause to reflect on the state of the European Union's fisheries, where years of subsidisation and political cowardice have led to the collapse of the cod fishery and the imminent demise of the Mediterranean Atlantic bluefin tuna stocks. But that's Europe, so of course this sorry situation couldn't have anything to do with profit, venality, vote-gathering, double standards or just plain incompetence, could it?

Holly, you dont get it...what gets me is the attitude that we here in NZ are morally superior to others.
And you are not...its the attitude of the people.
Its as simple as that. You are one of them. Instead of acknowledging that there are big issues you point your fingers at others.
And before you carry on, compare countries and not a country with many countries, that is a bit unbalanced isn't it.
You say it's nonsense that the country was united and I say it was united.
You are saying that the NZ fishery industry tries to fix the problem?! I say that is nonsense!!

http://www.greenpeace.org/n...land/sos/red-list

"Working actively to reduce" - that's typical NZ speak for "we're doing the absolute minimum." Why not just ban gill nets and have done with it? In reality the NZ fishing industry is trying very hard to remove what little protection there is
http://www.wwf.org.nz/?3600...dangered-Dolphins

I would venture to suggest that the substantial number of people who "couldn't give a bugger all about Japan or whaling" don't give a "bugger all" about animal welfare either.

Is it any wonder that NZ farming practices only change when their international reputation is in jeopardy, because the average Kiwi really couldn't give a stuff.

It's been said before but New Zealanders are rather badly informed about their own country's poor and BS environmental practices and therefore believe the bits they see on TVNZ news (read propaganda). "How great we are!"

Underdeveloped/poor infrastructure and underpopulated does not equate to "clean and green". Once you live here you notice it rather quickly.

"Ah thanks for my two DVDs then" says DVD rental store client
"Sweet mate. Would you like a plastic bag to carry them in?" says shop attendant
"Ah yeah that'll do, cheers mate".
Shop attendant tosses two DVDs into the bottom of a plastic carry bag that's big enough to put a baby in.
Bliss.

Before they save the whales, can't they start with the little things first?

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Stuck in the mud

Holly is pretty quiet now, after you revealed the crap she/he was talking about. No suprise the person is a Kiwi

I was half wondering whether she'd come back to defend her argument. Perhaps she's taken a different tack.

Posting a few articles supporting your contention doesn't make for a convincing argument. I don't bother doing it because it doesn't prove anything. Your opinion on NZ is still only your opinion. I can respect your right to voice it while arguing it's complete bollocks.

I came to this website to learn. One thing I've learned is that there are people who post on it who seem to consider themselves experts on a society they despise, without ever considering whether their judgement is clouded. And are enraged when that judgement is not accepted as objective fact. Newsflash - NZ has and NZers have many of the same problems as other countries, including lack of judgement, resources, foresight and political balls. How extraordinary. If you didn't realise that before you came here, then one has to wonder how just how much preparation you put into your move.

I've just deleted the paragraphs I wrote earlier setting out examples of some good animal welfare regulation implemented here, because what's the point? I doubt I'd bother coming back to read the response to it. There are questions I want to ask and answers I'd like to hear, but while I appreciate that people have to vent about their unhappiness, the degree of bile and prejudice I've seen here is disturbing.

I wish you all the best for the rest of your stay and luck in your next destination.

Anyone wishing to find out the truth about animal welfare in New Zealand only has to visit SAFE's website to get a good overview and read about the welfare approved pork campaign.

The comedian Mike King accused the pork industry of deception over its plans to use the "100% NZPork Welfare Approved" without revealing whether the pigs were reared in restrictive sow crates

http://www.stuff.co.nz/nati...abelling-attacked
And that doesn't apply just to the pork industry in New Zealand.

The Sofa is for non-NZ, no-immigration (i.e fun) topics, people!

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Please do not email or PM me with support questions. Direct them to the "Technical Support" forum instead.