Indeed, makes interesting reading

http://www.dnzb.govt.nz/DNZ....asp?essayID=1K16

Gurm, "first hand information" & Mr Krippner is known to you? I must've missed the fountain of youth last time I was in Puhoi, but it did have a rather nice tea and scones cafe.

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New Zealand. People who live in plaster houses shouldn't throw stones.

Last edited by Rebel on Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:22 pm

Gurm, if I did not know better, I would think you my alter-ego, but I was at work today and sober as a judge. I agree with much you say and the egalitarian hype has always left me wondering why there is such a line of demarcation among those who control and those who are controlled. Pretty clear to me, but I guess that Kiwis are pretty comfortable with the fact that white Britain conquered and ruled and others accepted their generosity. A sense of entitlement that puzzles me. Where do I fit in? Why am I resented as an American when I am just as (or more) British (or not) as many British in NZ. Oh wait, is it that my country of birth took chances and completely eliminated all ties with Britain early on?

I came here espousing the theory of egalitarianism only to find it was in reality, nepotism. That's all groovy, but be honest NZ. Let us not pretend that all are welcome here based on merit as it is not merit that is rewarded in NZ, but personal connection. Call it as it is and be proud, but do not deceive immigrants and leave them to believe that they will be given a fair go in NZ. It just isn't true and that is why it is necessary for a site like EE.

Just another little detail to set the facts straight!
Czechoslowakia is no more now and wasn't back then either ! Martin Krippner was a GERMAN !
And he shipped the first Puhoi settlers to NZ, but was lured with promises(which he passed on to them) of free land to the settlers.
Free land to them could have only been promised by the colonial power in NZ which was the british crown.
Of course, that free land could be anything from jungle, mountains to swamps(happened in the Nelson area before)but unlikely anything easy to deal with so the settlers were probably as blue eyed and pink goggled as so many nowadays.
Just trying to make the similarity more obvious to some !

Hold your fire man ! Read again ! Not everything is like it sounds ! You have to learn to interpret information !

sounds like a typical kiwi to me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Krippner

especially here;

What does the Name Martin Krippner sound like to you, Czech or Hungarian ?
Also, do you believe everything that you read ?
The URL you mention tells one story, people tell another !

No, I dont believe everything I read

Neither do I !

If I understand James Belich correctly, his research found that the NZ immigration policy largely favoured Britons and discriminated against most other immigrant groups. The system to do so remained applicable until the late 1950s and, he argues possibly until 1974. See Belich, J Paradise Reforged (2001) Penguin at 223–4.

It is therefore understandable why a large pakeha segment in NZ still feels ties to and affiliated with the "motherland". Until the late 80s, kiwi youths (by a large majority) did their famous "OE's" in England. One may be forgiven to assume that this was encouraged by their parents who urged them to 'get to know their roots' or something like that? That, and as a dominion of Britain it was easy to go there of course.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/b...s.guardianreview6

From various historical/older sources it would appear that the British who came to NZ were from the lower middle-class and the working class and they came to NZ primarily to escape the class system and snobbery of Britain at the time. I think this is relatively well known and accepted. They came here to create an English/British egalitarian society. As working class Brits they didn’t want much to do with anything they associated with the higher-middle/middle classes or the upper class and that’s why all things philosophical and intellectual fell by the way side and were ridiculed and frowned upon. The people of NZ expected new comers to fit into this mould of "we-all-work-equally-hard-and-the-same and-none-of-us-is-better-than-the-next". Indeed, the start of tall poppy syndrome.
As such though, I do believe that it was a certain segment of British society, with a certain outlook on life and with certain similar values that came out here and stayed. To many Britons though, the way of life here and indeed the antipodes generally, did not appeal. Perhaps they were of the middle classes and educated but I want to assume a significant chunk was not. People/Britons who complained and didn’t fit into the New Zealand (established) frame of mind and approach were labeled and ostracized back in the mid 1800’s already.

To this day there is a case to be made for which/what sort of British people - and others by now as I believe Asian immigration has now surpassed British immigration numbers, South Africans come here in droves too, and there are/were a few Europeans and Americans who participate on this website - would fit in here and those who wouldn’t. (There's a thread exploring this on this site already (Who would fit in here I think) but I don't know if it led to any conclusions/clarity.)
If all the expats posting on forums for Brits in New Zealand are to be believed, there (still) seems to be many British people who love it here. South Africans will never criticize NZ publicly either and on their forum they also "love it here". But I dare say they (those happy expats) manage to fit into the mould (or share its values). Or they have some magic outlet for their frustrations which renders them calm and serene, appearing blissfully content and at peace with their "new life".

I don't fit into the mould. I come from a working class non-tertiary educated family - eventually a one-parent family. I'm not materialistic, greedy or even highly intelligent/super talented. For all practical intents and purposes I should fit in here. I don't. Something about me goes against the grain and Kiwis can probably sense that. I want to know what that something is. At least before I die, I want to nail it down and define it clearly. I suspect that whatever it is, it may be the same 'something' for the many immigrants to NZ who come, who see, who leave.
For the record: I wish I could've fit in here. I wish I loved it and saw it the way truly happy immigrants see it.

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Stuck in the mud