HI RRRR,

Hows your idea coming along?

We've had our website go up: yyyyyyyyyy
I spent several weeks relearning how to code fff, ff, ff and the new open source technologies ff, ffand ffCM to build the bastard.

I spent the last year relooking over my understanding of fff especially after my experiences with zzzz and business generally. Back to the basics, perhaps influenced by my MBA studies but more my curiosity, as the MBA was mostly a waste of time. So much for making me more employable. Well at least the way it was taught at UC - am i supposed to say that?? I still want to finish it because those letters seem to mean a lot to people who don't know any better.

I learnt how to write an academic essay and my english writing improved, did i learn anything new about business??... not that much, It's ideas are rooted in 80's style high corporatism, not 00's style lean business, a few tricks, a couple of decent books would of been a better investment...i managed to spend a lot of time reading and designing some new ideas around business which i'll be posting as blog topics over the next few weeks.

My whole experience here in New Zealand has been completely disappointing unfortunately.My dream is about to end. You read about the "entrepreneurial spirit", the get up and go of a lot of kiwis and for a small fraction of the population it is self evidently true, it's what made me come to NZ, it's just the remainder of the populace would either prefer to return NZ to an eco-paradise (pre human habitation) or an idyllic retirement village. The fantasy is supported by a vigorous parochial socialist mentality embedded within the public sector, mainly councils and various national bureaucracies, buttressed by the intent of subverted legislation called the RMA act. (It manages the local and urban environment) great in principle but needs a major overhaul to remove the ability for left wing and ultra conservatives to use blocks to deny progression of NZ to 1st world modernity.

This is why when you come here the country looks like 1950's Australia, outside of Auckland anyway. This is why we had senior citizens oppose our applications for xxxxxx in Wanaka and Queenstown and why we were blocked in our attempts to get viable xxxxxx in Christchurch and Wellington for 4 years, and why other people i know spent over a decade battling incumbent bureaucracies to get their ideas started. It's just not worth it.

It's why the young leave, i never fully appreciated this until about a year ago / year and a half ago, the place is full of opportunity, but it's denied to the young and entrepreneurs like myself when you place yourself between a dream and a bureaucrat. Never did i think that i would be actively opposed bringing something so great to NZ that the rest of the world already has and loves.

It's why the living costs are so much higher when compared to australia especially when you earn on average 1/2 as much. It's because of all the needless barriers to enterprise these well meaning bureaucrats put up to make their country godzone and in reality making this place the deathzone. I mean the place was all but a stalinist state in the early 80's which explains a lot of what i've experienced here in the public sector.

That's just one part, that's why i've been persisting for 5 years, because the opportunity exists, but it exists because structurally and socially the country restrains its own people denies them the ability to take advantage of all the opportunities possible, and unless you've lived here you won't know what i mean, it's why 1 million kiwis live OS and will never return. They understand stifling conservatism, it's why productivity is so low why living standards are falling, it's why the eco morons will soon have their "sustainable" environment of mung beans, brown outs and no work.

I remember meeting a kiwi in Shanghai a VP in a global market research company who didn't have a degree and said that if he ever went back to NZ no-one would ever give him a job. I met many returnees who did return, some with young families and then being unemployed for 6-12 months, including aussies with multiple degrees living on their asses with no work and families to support and i thought i was unusual. thank christ i don't have kids. I remember reading about a poor bloke in a Hamner springs newspaper and how we was forced to live in a car with his two kids for several months as he had no choice.

It's small town conservatism writ large across the entire country and you won't know it exists unless you butt heads against it and the more south you go the worse it gets.

We were warned about this attitude from investors when we were raising money and it's part of the reason we only managed to raise 1/3 of what we needed, they didn't trust the councils to give us the support we needed. They were right. And it's my stubborn persistence that only made things worse for me.
It's why i raised several hundred thousand dollars and have gotten nowhere.
It's why when we approached business development organisations in Christchurch and Wellington we were basically ignored, specific mention goes to CDC, the canterbury development corporation, who were particularly lazy and odious in their good intentions, why, when we approached powerhouse a startup incubator we were shown the door on 3 occasions, no room for private enterprise here, move along. Got good ideas, not for us, we only take Uni sanctioned PHD's. i thought it was me, but i've now found out i'm not the only business guy to be let down by these pencil pushers when we needed to cut red tape.

We're basically at the end of our dream, we're going to get liquidated next friday, i've managed to survive 3 prior attempts because i'm positive about being able to shape my path, but i never thought that i would spend 2 1/2 years and 700 job applications later completely unemployable in this rotten country, sure the recession hit but not in my worst nightmare did i think that i couldn't get IT contract work here especially with my skills. I won't mention our desperate cost cutting measures we had to undertake when both myself and zzzz couldn't get any work which sent us homeless for several months, living out of our car in car parks up and down canterbury, barely able to afford food and the year that we spent sleeping in zzzz's sisters backyard in my tiny two person climbing tent or how about the year and a half we slept sleeping on the floor of out tiny office having to sneak into university and AAAAA's jobs so we could have a shower once every couple of days. It's just not worth it, i think about the opportunity costs and how i should be up 3/4 million and not down 100+K had i of stayed in OZ or gone to HK.

We had expensive equipment but no way to market ourselves and most of the time no income, only recently have we resorted to selling our expensive gear for 1/10 to 1/3 of the cost of purchase so we could afford to eat and pay our rent.We had occasional work but not enough to pay back our most demanding creditors, this the pure result of the councils declining to support us on a commercial level at no expense to themselves. They would blow 3 million (really 5 million if you know the true hidden costs) supporting a grand standing money losing flower show but not money making enterprises that exist in their own backyard if they could just get the F*K out the way. We should be employing 50 people like similar organisations in other countries but no were getting liquidated. Only in NZ.

I won't go on about a business mentor who only lasted two sessions, an investor who promised much, saved our asses a couple of times, but then drank himself into oblivion and ruined three opportunities for us when we couldn't locate him as it turned out he was recovering in hospital or god knows where, and so sent us down wild goose chases and never followed through on his promises to us.

Anyway this is our last attempt to earn an income here in NZ, it's taken us several months of preparation, but as i've found you need to build a business before you can actually be a business, we're going to give it till the end of August, we have some interesting clients lined up who in theory are about to sign off on some jobs but too late to save our skinny asses from liquidating our main investment vehicle i fear. I was resisting this liquidation before as i want to pay back our creditors, but they don't see it that way, which legally removes our financial obligations to a number of creditors. One door closes another opens. who knows. It's quite gut wrenching.

At least i have the seeds of a number of other opportunities, this time i'll steer very far away from anything that requires public sector approval and get the hell out of here and into a dynamic culture like asia where i can be appreciated and not blocked at every turn trying to make this rotten country better.

Sorry about the rant, just had to get it off my chest. )

Cheers, SSSS

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BCKN

Sorry that, as usual, I don't have time to respond in any depth (not to mention that I actually don't really know quite what to say! The R's, y's, z's and x's.....?????? Whatever it is they're substituting for could make a difference to what level of commiseration for your experience here - the business experience at least - that I, at least, might be capable of mustering.) But as no one else has yet commented here, thought I'd pop in to at least, well, acknowledge your post...

BTW, no one should EVER have to apologize on this site "for the rant". If people didn't 'rant' here of all places, we none of the rest of us may otherwise ever have had a clue (how about that for a mouthful! No English majors around I hope??) that there were others sharing the same negative experiences, problems, setbacks in so many areas. Plus, this is probably about the only forum in or about NZ where most (or at least many, LOL!) members don't seem to have ADD to the extent that they're incapable of reading, and/or expressing themselves in, more than a paragraph or two. But then, more than a few years of life (did I say 'life'? That hardly seems an accurate word for it!!) in NZ CAN bring all sorts of conditions out in one...aye!



This I can fully relate to and commiserate with you about. The dream part, the managing to survive even after setback after setback, the positivity about being able to shape ones own path (because in my case, for instance, I have ALWAYS - BEFORE I MOVED TO NZ THAT IS - been able to do so. I too have a set of skills, and the strong drive, that anywhere and everywhere else has always, and I'm sure would have, seen me through)... I still haven't given up though, and that's probably a big mistake. I can't accept that the dream is over, because I will then have to accept that I have lost... EVERYTHING. And I just can't face that, I'm not so young any more that I can start all over again, and this experience has taken EVERYTHING out of me, emotionally and financially.



I've bolded the parts above that I think should stand out for others to read and read again - because extreme as your story is, I don't think it's as unusual an experience for immigrants (and NZers too for that matter) as many would like to believe it is. I'm just glad that someone (you) has finally put that experience into black and white - not that everyone reading it will necessarily believe that it was/is as bad as it probably REALLY is/was for you. When I look at my own experience (I have not told my own story... yet), and indeed what I am going through even now, it is so incredible to believe it is happening to me/us. And yet, I know that if I attempted to tell it to others, whether in words or in writing, I could never convey it in a way that it would come across even close to as extreme as it really is. Somehow, the most extreme situations lose something in the telling. Which is no doubt why so many people here in NZ in particular end up topping themselves... There are a few other members who post on this forum who are also going through 'extreme situations', and again, I think most people reading their posts will not understand JUST how bad their situations (and their mindsets because of it) really are.

I just hope for your sake that you're young (as well as, I can't help but add, that for my and my kids' sakes the type of business you're in isn't exploitative, or in any way bad/negative for the future, of the earth/mankind, especially if just for the sake of a quick or short-term gain! Fertility clinics, logburners, trawlers, chemical fertilizers/pesticides, air travel promotion, cheap imports, etc kind of thing!), as 100k is a lot to lose BUT... you CAN bounce back again - IF AND WHEN you leave this place! If you really do have that positive attitude, that will get you over even this incredibly horrific experience (as long as your health is still intact though - that's the real danger of all this, letting the situation make you potentially-life-threateningly ill).

Right, see? I told you I didn't have time to respond in any depth. I'll have to leave the LENGTHY response for another time, LOL!

(There really were a number of other things you said that I might've commented on, which I have no time to do. But I do have something to say about this:



Many before you have tried, and many after you will try - the very IDEA of NZ, a country that gives a most convincing impression of beckoning with open, welcoming arms to the best and brightest to bring their big ideas and their skills to MAKE A DIFFERENCE, will always (until the truth is well exposed) be irresistible to some of the very brightest minds of the world. Good luck to them! But oh what a loss to the rest of the world if NZ succeeds with them in one of things it does best: 'breaking' tall poppies (usually only after they've relieved them of all their money though...and then some, just to be sure)

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Laugh and the world laughs with you, Weep and you're weeping alone, Prosper and give and they'll let you live But fail, and you're on your own

Welcome to EE, BC. I read your post a couple of nights ago and found it really intense. My intensity over the years here has lessened, but I still get really worked up over some of the idiotic things that go on here. I have worked in several government organisations since being in NZ and I just cannot imagine trying to compete in any business situation here. Nearly everything that is worth anything is either tightly controlled by a nincompoop who has devised some BS labyrinth to access their product or service or a bully who believes they are entitled based on some set of messed up values.

Just a brief thankyou for the replies. My business partner and i are sitting here and wondering what it was all for, our venture was the most positive, harmless and inspirational activity you could possibly imagine, our customers loved us when we had the chance to do what we came here to do. Which is why we kept persisting. Our intent was to take 5 - 10 years to setup and sell off a profitable company, but that is pretty typical of what entreepreneurs (the good sort - do), some people buy jobs for themselves, i'm happy to build a business and in theory be rewarded for my ability and risk taking to create something that was not there before providing a living for numerous staff and taxable income to better the local economy.

But we're completely shell shocked, we were bringing over a positive and proven business model used successfully in the rest of the world earning millions of dollars for their shareholders and the local economy, but the difference was the concept was supported by stakeholders over there as the benefits were obvious and self evident.

Here in NZ all that we ever encountered was negativity and resistance from councils and self appointed interest groups who can easily block anything going ahead even when they are not directly affected. We encountered so many of them, it seems to be inherent in the majority of the population, especially older retired types, a very very deep conservatism and cynicism and a stop you from getting ahead attitude.

This was completely unexpected. Our achilles heel was that we were dependant on council / public sector approvals. This was our biggest mistake thinking we could convince them of the basic merit of our proposal, it was simple win wins for everybody or so we thought. All we had was obstruction, indifference, hostility even from organisations funded by the council to attract business to the regions!! It was completely unbelievable, we were (potentially) bringing employment to dozens of people, turning over significant somes of money so it could be put back into the economy, bring first world technology and convenience and it wouldn't even register with these morons let alone the bureacrats that we sought approval from. You go there explain that you need some assistance getting past some red tape and it's Oh that's nice i wish you all the best, yeah, but how about helping me it's what you get paid for right?????? Maybe they had their hands full helping property developors (NZ version of a manufacturing industry aparty from the All Wanks obsession) or some chinese car manfacturer establish a mythical hi tech space based nanotech manufacturing centre in some island in Lytellton harbour. I didn't know that bringing in 7 figure revenues was so unappealing??

There are other avenues we could have tried i guess but it's too late now, we've blown all our capital, can't get jobs, can't break into the old boys referral network coz they don't (trust/like?) aussies or entrepreneurs, (Very problematic in Christchurch) morale down **** creek...blah blah blah.

Our persistence has been our financial disaster. We can only give this warning out to other entrepreneurs that have any reliance on public sector approvals to NOT come to New Zealand.

Go to somewhere like Asia especially China where people want to improve themselves and governments are more encouraging towards enterprise or "give it a go" Australia. The markets are bigger, enough to sustain sales and hence R&D investments whilst you get going. Sure there are pitfalls there as well, but hey there's a "life" in those countries that you won't find in moribund sleepy NZ. In the time that we spent here in NZ, competitors sprung up making money in OZ whilst all we ever did was lose it based on the same concept here in NZ. So much for my ability to spot untapped opportunity. The cultural dynamics of these places is immediately obvious and this is where we are heading after our very painful experience here.

Stay away or keep an ultra sharp eye on resource consent planners they are worse than loan sharks. We were quoted $2000 and their invoice blew out to 25,000!!! For what at best was a 4 or 5K job. These issues happened on several occaisions for us. Without any mechanism on their part to inform or stop their charging process. Very, very poor ethical practices from so called professionals is what you can expect.

The councils have no commercial sense, they are not interested in helping business or improve local econmies especially the job for life bureaucrats you'll encounter, there is a deep green socialism and anti-business mindset inherent all the way south from Hamilton within key sections of these organisations. We didn't try Auckland though so that may be different.

Luckily we are young enough to try again and this terrible expereince has i hope honed my business skills a little more or maybe exposed my lack of skill??. At the moment we really just don't know who to talk to, so few people understand business and the risk that is such a part of the expereince.

Last edited by bananachicken on Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:48 am

HI i am protected by my anonymity, but it really was our expereince here in NZ, homelessnes (living out of car), sleeping in a a friends backyard in a tent for close to a year, having bailiffs hunt us down so they could take our car because we couldn't afford to pay our parking fines, etc etc, unable to afford car rego or WOF and getting huge tickets just making us even worse off. Appearing in court trying to explain i had no money to pay my fines whilst being a director of a couple of companies. I was too proud to go on the dole. Its all unfortunately true and pretty depressing. Take it as you will, when we get back on our feet i'll write up a book or at least a few blog entries where we'll let it all out about our nightmare in NZ. To think that I used to have a very comfortable life in Australia.

What kind of technology does your business provide?

that would identify me, and i think the operative word is "did" provide, Key items we had to sell at a shocking loss because we needed to buy food and pay rent. As i still have parking fines i'm trapped in godzone unemployable until i can pay off some more of my parking fines. So there goes some more bits of kit. I really don't want to be arrested at the departure gate and sent to jail because i all want is an income.

So we can't operate anymore. Lets hope our consultancy gets off the ground long enough to fund our escape and pay off our fines- (another good story there )

Our two sets of solutions using technology designed by us aren't going to stay in this country any longer, the IP is locked away in my head until i find a more viable place to go and setup again and fund the patents. We had one instance where a Levin based manufacturer stole an early design of ours and sold it across into Australia, but we couldn't enforce our IP rights even though there was an agreement between us, gees, coz we had no money for the lawyers. Our story does get even better, but i'll save it for a book.

A lot of people told us to take our stuff overseas as the market was too small, yes they were right. The market is just too small to even allow bootstrapping an enterprise especially in a niche technology anywhere south of Auckland is my guess. I don't have the patience of Burt Monroe - Fastest Indian - to tinker for decades living on crumbs and on the dole.

I know of several companies that have successfully setup in Christchurch so maybe my expereince is an outlier against the norm, but these are IT based business that operate in export markets, whereas ours was product based. Perhaps if i had rerouted my investment into manufacturing our tech instead of something which i thought was less risky (but needed council approval) i wouldn't be here, but we only came across a market demand because of the first reason so there's an issue of causality here.

It's a real shame because our intention was to start manufacturing one of our technologies here in Christchurch but our market was Auckland and OS, as the economies are too small for what we provided any further south. Just too deep for our pockets when our main investment was stalled due to council bureaucratic indifference and obstruction.

I came to NZ because i loved the climate and environment and what i thought was the "Can do" attitude but the unfortunate realisation is that people succeed not because of the attitude but in spite of the real NZ attitude. Just read a few articles by Bernard Hickey at the NZ Herald. I'm not the only one that thinks this way.

i would love to stay but i'll quote from a from the Michael Douglas movie Falling Down: NZ isn't "Economically Viable" and our pockets aren't deep enough to sustain the continual losses required to get up and running from the obstacles put in our way which are intrinsic to the NZ economic environment.

The Govt knows this, but for every barrier they take down they put another one in place. ETS anyone?? GST at 15%

Last edited by bananachicken on Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:28 pm

Well just hold fire guys, Im sure kiwi00 is just about to tell you where you got it all wrong!!

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NEW ZEALAND, LAND OF THE BIG WHITE LIE

You know, all we wanted from the councils was a bit of co-operation, no money, no changes in laws, just a bit of god damn co-operation. I mean it was all positive in what we were bringing to the table. But it was just too hard to say yes for them.

Here is another lovely example of what others have found. Which is so similar to the attitude we experienced, but we didn't need NZ taxpayer money, we had our own.

http://emigratetonewzealand...nt-funding/[/url]

Your link isn't working - this should do it:


http://emigratetonewzealand...vernment-funding/


Speaking of which, so how did NZ get ranked #2 in the world here?:

http://www.doingbusiness.org/economyrankings/

@Bananachicken,
Where else in the world wipes out and robs people of their dreams so effectively and comprehensively as New Zealand? iNZception is a perfect title.


The same way it gets so high in other rankings - B.S.

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New Zealand. People who live in plaster houses shouldn't throw stones.

Bananachicken. I have to say I admire you for what you are doing and it's a shame it didn't work out. I know what it's like to be in your situation as a start-up company, me and some others started up an engineering company only about a year and a half ago, but my clients are all in the middle east and I consequently travel there a lot so I can't comment on doing business in the South Island. Literally not even 1 year ago we were just 2 or 3 guys and I was working from my laptop out of my bedroom, we were absolute nobodies. Now we have work flooding in so fast that we are struggling to keep up, we're expecting to have enough work for 50 people by the end of the year with unlimited growth potential.

My advice to you or anyone starting a company, even when you go back to Australia it's important learn to lie a little (tacit lying). It's very important to portray your company as already somewhat successful even when you're starting out. Even if you are just starting out with 2 or 3 people and have little or no turnover, you should portray yourselves (not the product but the company) as having at least a 5 year history and turnover of say $1Million and that you already employ 20-30 people in other locations. People will take you more seriously than if you are honest (we're just startng out, give us a chance). I prefer to call it exageration rather than lying, most people are not going to check. Only thing I will say is never tell too big a lie, keep it small and believable otherwise you will lose respect and never promise anything that you can't deliver. Do whatever you can to portra this and keep saying it and eventually it will become second nature.

That's how we started and eventually we got so good at it that people just believed us and we even believed ourselves. Our clients are some very large companies and they believed us as well, we got contracts (small at first) and now we have been awarded quite a large contract. You might think that what we did was bad, but it's too late now, success comes to those who have guts.

As I said, B.S.

kiwi00 your clients are all in the Middle East, that's hardly comparable to Bananachicken's situation is it. I also notice that do you not do say if this 'business' of yours is based in New Zealand. What are your clients like for paying their bills promptly, if they pay them at all?

One "quite large project" and suddenly you've got enough work to keep 50 people gainfully employed? (cough)

Forgive me if I find everything you've said hard to believe, looks like it is possible to "tell too big a lie."

This is Bananachicken's story, don't hijack it.

Hi bananachicken

Sounds like you've been through the mill and not for lack of trying.

Curious: why do you provide a link to the Canterbury Development Corporation's website in your profile? Were they the ones you feel stifled you in your endeavors or ..? What is it about them that you want readers/us to take note of?

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Stuck in the mud

Hi Kiwi00 et al,

Interesting story from Kiwi00, i think it's believable if not a bit unusual, all the best for you in your expansion.i'm not too precious about my story getting hijacked, it's an open forum, it's good to learn what works for other people. PLuto - i'm not too sure about what you mean in reference to me putting a CDC link on my profile?? Where do i check this?

CDC for us were a waste of time. They exist (so they say) to help businesses in canterbury or assist in setting up business in Canterbury. They are owned (funded) if my memory is correct by the council (like what isn't in canterbury). Hence we thought they could have some sway with the bureaucrats that were blocking and ignoring our requests over several years. As we didn't know who else to turn to to try and navigate the maze that is council process we asked CDC for assistance on several occaisions.

They put us in the too hard basket and just told us to go back to the council, to the same set of bureaucrats we were having problems with (like refusing to even meet with us or understand our proposal). We were so disgusted and dismayed by the CDC expereience we refuse to deal with them anymore. There's no point.I'm sure their internal reports would say we helped so and so business with problem x, y or z. Yeah BS.
Admittedly we had the same experience in Wellington Otago, Hamilton with their business development organisations. What do these places do?????

We were advised to go to the media on several occasions even by an ex mayor of Christchurch but didn't want to upset the one or two people who by now basically controlled our fate and who wanted nothing to do with us - without explanation or process. We thought we were here for the "long term" so why rock the boat. Lawyers were just too expensive for us., we thought wre could reason with the bureacrats.

So our situation, we wanted to invest into an enterprise / opportunity that only we recognised but needed some approval from a couple of obscure bureaucrats which we thought would be a breeze (all upside benefits no downsides), can't get anywhere with a standard approach through normal channels, who do we turn to for help? Well the purported organisation that exists to help improve business in Canterbury (And wellington, and Otago and Hamilton)- were they any help, nope. They just seemed to offer training programs for people still learning about business. So where do you turn to next?? Eventually we approached several councillors, only one of whom returned a call, definitely not the socialist greenie. He got the ball rolling for us, at long long last, but if you go over a bureacrats head, then the trouble only just begins.

Another interesting thing about CDC, they had an enterprise development budget of about 1.5 million per year (funded by the council) to invest in companies that can contribute to canterbury growth (when we looked into it), however the process is opaque and completely unaccountable at least when we looked into it and any monies seemed to go to very established companies, so if you were refused access they wouldn't even tell you why and the people behind the scheme were completely unknown. Shove em a piece of paper and hope for the best. We did and the expected happenned. SO much for the stategic goal of the Council long term community plan of encouraging 500 business startups. We had 4 on the cards and all are now dead with losses well into 6 figures because of the support this council and others gave us.

Also a word of warning about NZTE escalator service for comapnies looking for private and venture capital, what they won't tell you is that if by chnace you jump through all the due diligence and feasibility hurdles set by the brokers, then by and large you probably won't get funded even though you are a qualified investment opportunity, there just aren't enough private investors in the country. 100 when we were in the program justover 2 years ago (as a qualified opportunity). And the big VC firms won't even look at you unless you have turnover in the several million dollar range and then they'll take 50% thankyou.


At that rarified level of being investment ready there were 30-40 qualified opportunities waiting around for a deal. Not to say you won't get funded but when 4000+ companies apply and 30 are accepted and maybe 10 get funded (eventually) you can see what your odds are. My advise is if you have a good idea. Get the hell out of NZ, we knew of several people that hightailed it to the UK or US with subjectively speaking weaker ideas (maybe they were better?) than ours and got the funding they needed. How smart am i....to have come here.!! Of the companies that did get funded most seemed to be big SOE (public sector) spin offs especially here in CCCP.

The trick here is that the 4 equity brokers that are in the Escalator program go out and spruik their services, because they get paid by the Govt to screen all the applicants, a nice little cash cow for them, they get paid even though you can spend 6 - 12 months with them going through feasiblity hurdles before they (most probably 99% chance) exit you. All of this effort means taking your eye off your market and your business paradoxically.

We were in the tiny group of businesses/opportunities that jumped through all the hoops only to find out it was mostly a cash cow for the brokers, they got richer you got poorer. Of the companies that we know of that did get as far as a deal with investors, do you really want them to own 75% of your business?? We figured out that instead of wasting time (9 months)with these jokers writing endless variations of our business plans, validating and cross validating our research, endless financial modeling and writing up information flyers/ memoranda (the brokers don't do any of this stuff) we should have got out and talked to clients sort of like KIWI00 did instead of making paper pasties.

We went through two rounds of Escalator as we were quite pissed of with our first broker who left us in the lurch right after we qualified coz he went to the UK to try and sign up a distribution deal for himself and left us with a minion who did crap all for 3 months - really!. So we asked to exit that broker and go with another broker with more ethics (Note there are only 4 in the country that are involved with Esclator)The next set of brokers left us in the lurch as well, They advised us to concentrate on one of our other opportunities, (they didn't want to revisit our already qualified opportunity??)

We didn't want that much (just some seed funding to R&D a market driven opportunity), they exited us, after taking their cut from the govt of course. Why go through the bother.....So great one qualified another unqualified opportunity and we're back where we started after 12 months of NZTE escalator merry go round and 10% of the external capital needed, obtained. We ended up acquiring additional external capital through a variety of other means, what we had left in the bank and the usual - FFF.

I did read that section from Majok how NZ was supposed to be ranked 2 in doing business in. I don't necessarily disagree, labour is cheap - not far from China standard --- and getting closer every day......, it's easy to get started if you've got the cash, educated workforce, lots of highly skilled ex pats and Kiwis just back from the UK with too many skills and expereince and no opportunity for work, heh heh heh, exchange rate is generally favourable if not a bit too volatile. Downsides are geographic remoteness, tiny local economy also geographically disparate so you're up for quite sizeable chunks of travelling hence expenditure and can't build econmies of scale or scope into your marketing, so don't target the local market unless you want to be competing on commodified services with price your only differentiator unless you can figure out a white space opportunity then really i mean really understand why it exists - i had to find out the hard way. Typically a statist structural block creating an impediment to realisation (AKA NZ Public sector socialism).

As a comparison educated professionals on the Chinese east coast (e.g Shanghai) are drawing close to parity in wages with NZ equivalents, as china modernises NZ falls relatively speaking further and further behind its western peers on many levels comparatively speaking and will soon begin to compete with Chinese labour maybe 10 - 20 years?

This sort of makes NZ attractive if you want to manufacture low volume, high specialty goods. If you have distribution channels and relationships setup with your OS partners then NZ can be a good place to setup business especially when you are earning Euro or USD instead of South pacific NZ pesos.

Of course setting up these channels and relationships takes money let alone the R&D work you have to put in to get things going. This is why IT enterprises are (can be) so efficient, when everything can be done from your website. We found that IT companies seemed to be more attractive than product based companies to investors. But generally IT solutions create much much lower barriers to entry and competition and hence are more easily copied but then who has 1/2 Million dollars to defend and enforce your IP product rights. Although Zorb is a good case in point where they have given up patent enforcement and defended their IP through well crafted Brand protection strategies.

My mistake was to engage in a "whitespace" opportunity in the local market, it exists and will still exist when i exit NZ, but the killer was that i was reliant on lazy, socialist council bureacrats for a key approval which most anywhere else in the world is not an issue and more so actually encouraged...except socialist NZ as i was to find out.

After having sunk my capital into infrastructure (which was demanded from the councils as a trial with the added bonus of no guarantee of continuity...yeah...my known risk) i just couldn't "re-tool" or raise more capital even through doing contract work in my IT skills when it became obvious after 5 years of effort the councils were only going to accept perpetual trials and battle me at every turn to make it viable and give me and my investors a return.

God this is fun getting off my chest....

Last edited by bananachicken on Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:57 pm

On this website (ExpatExposed) see the little globe icon (next to the PM icon) that appears to the left of your posts under your specs (where your name, status, location, age etc. appears) or alternatively click on your own username and see the little globe icon there (once your details appear in a new window).

I thought you may have a blog going and therefore I clicked on it but it linked to CDC's website. In fact if you hover your cursor over the globe icon without clicking on it, a little window says "see poster's website" or something like that. You may want to change that then seeing as you have no fond memories of them?

Hi Kiwioo, Im in engineering (have been all my life) whats the name of your company???? (cant think of any logical reason why you would not want to give it out) Would be interested to see what line of engineering you have been so successful with yet so many in NZ have failed.

If I named the company then it's possible to identify me and I could become the target of a hate/cyber stalking campaign from certain members of this forum. Therefore I would prefer to remain anonymous.

thought so, fair enough. OK what line of engineering is it that you are involved in?

oil & gas, refining and chemicals