Yes you are right - a smile is given freely and is so welcome.



I had not realised before coming to NZ that some cultures are unable to make eye contact, particularly with woman and that they can find a smile offensive in their own culture. That is something I have had to adapt to. I still smile of course and endeavour to make contact - but I have had to learn that I won't always get the reaction I expect.



Retraining is very necessary I agree. If I had expected to work as a nurse in Germany, then I would have had to have learnt how to converse 'medically' in German and also adapt to working within a different structure. The role of the nursing profession there is fairly different to the UK in many ways.



When I came to NZ, I expected the same, but after 18 months and having paid $950 to have my qualifications assessed by NZQA and The Nursing Council - and yet to have confirmation of my registration I decided to abandon that idea and seek another job. To retrain for nursing was also going to cost me $1300 for a 9 week course.



However, I have retrained as an Aviation Security Officer and am enjoying the different challenges that provides.



It is great that you invite people to your home as that is where you get to know the 'true' person and not just the image of any race.

We do the same thing and have learnt so much about culture and language in our many travels worldwide.



We used to love being invited into people's homes in Germany, even when we were still learning the language because we then felt part of that community and were indeed proud to have been invited in to their homes.



Thanks for your post.



Trisha

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We are a family of 5 who arrived in Christchurch Jan 2006 and left in July 2008.

Rachel now working in Australia as a qualified nurse, Hannah is off to Uni in UK to study English Lit and Lang and Naomi waiting for GCSE results.

Trisha,



If I were you I would be pretty angry as well having to wait 18 months, that's rediculous. But is that just an exceptional case or is this something that happens to all immigrant nurses?

here is a smile for you trisha

years ago in new zealand much of the



was paid by the government but they have put most of their government departments on a commercial basis.



so now every thing the government departments does has to be paid for by the customer where possible.

_________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...

It's about learning to dance in the rain.

The impossible immediately.

miracles take a little longer

http://www.storydad.com/for...ex.php?board=13.0

of course it is a stepping stone to greener pastures! if you can't get a job in the main centres you have to find a job somewhere. although i understand that employers want people who would ideally stay forever, even this is not true for kiwis!



why do you think "contract" work is so popular these days?

Thanks for the support Alistair.



When I did my nursing and midwifery it was back in the 1980's and it was not done as a degree in a university. The hold up is the transcript of my training.



Also, you have to keep checking with the nursing council here, as they don't tell you what the hold up is - so you have to keep badgering them ( that we have learnt!).



I think most cases are done a lot quicker, as people applied either from the UK before they got here - and it took only a couple of months, or their nurse training was more up to date therefore they have a degree transcript that is suitable for NZ.



I even offered to work voluntarily until they sorted out my registration in the Baby Care Unit so that I would be able to get into the way they work in NZ - but it was not accepted.



In the meantime, I applied for a phlebotomist job - which purely takes blood from people in outpatients - but they wrote and said I was over qualified!!



That was an interesting point piersdad. I know in the UK that where they are short of nurses, they are paying for any re-training as long as the person commits to working with them for a period of time. I think that is happening here now, where the rest homes contributes to the training as long as you work with them - but my speciality is pre-term babies, and I was afraid that once I worked in a rest home - I would always do that in NZ!



I think I am unique as having lived in Germany as a Brit - I had to have extra police checks etc and it all took time.



Anyway, a change of career was quite a good move - if not frustrating at the time. At least I finally got some work!



Trisha

Well I tried that here in the USA and I don't advise it! Americans are very good at rising up and fighting back twice as hard and very dirty. There are no protections for people in the workplace in many/most states! Human Resource Departments are employed by the companies, therefore they are biased.

I think as an immigrant the only way to effect change is to educate people about your country and about your culture. Is why they have all these diversity councils in cities and in the workplace!

I hate to hear that anyone is being treated badly anywhere and especially in my beloved homeland. I do like the outward civility shown here in the US. However, I still maintain that as an immigrant we have to to bite the bullet and carry on or shrivel up and die!

Do Americans understand the reasoning behind some of the animosity Kiwi's show for them? I've spent 10 years learning about the people I live with and where they're coming from. How much have any of you on here spent in learning the history to understand the people?

There are places to take your complaints as I saw on the legal forum. It's a shame you didn't know where to go for help.

There's nothing lonelier than being away from home and family amongst a hostile people!

Khar,

No, I do not understand the hositility people show me here in NZ. I came here educated, experienced and invited to do a job in a field of shortage. Paid for the privelege of the hostility too and still do. Please explain it.

I know a great deal about NZ: history and government. I would venture to say that I know much more about it than the average Kiwi. They're a pretty ignorant lot for the most part. I would know a lot more about them if Kiwi's were so arrogant insular.

So tell me, why are you in the US? For the money, the opportunity or love? I really want to know and would love to learn more about your experiences. Does your house have central heating? How old is your car? How big is your garden? Is there mold all over your home? Do you have mice? What would the US do to you if you committed IRD and immigration fraud? Would you have a job if you bullied your co-workers? Do have opportunites for advancement at your job? Do you have to work for 30 minutes to see a movie?

Hello

Yes, I have central heating and air conditioning. I live in Iowa, another insular place in the world. Yes, the cost of living here in regards to cars and homes and food is way cheaper than it ever was in NZ.

I came for love and right now I'm not working. I've found the same issues as some of you are speaking of. I fought back and lost, so I'm kinda fazed out and licking my wounds and keeping low! Iowa has a high rate of educated people and they are awesome workers.

I found it refreshing coming here and seeing people in dire circumstances still positive and out working a living to keep their families going. Iowa is somewhat better place financially to live than many other parts of America. Prices are lower, but taxes are high.

Over here they are employing people from India and Europe over top of American people who have the same skill sets. The American people are being done over by their very govts. and wealthy companies without much protection. The 1HB scams need to be addressed and by the looks of it they are going to address this.

In Iowa 80% of 2 parent families work, I think this is the highest rate in America. Wages are low and the govt. gives tax incentives to lure big companies. There is no such thing as the small family farms, it's more corporate farming with alot of pollution. The State govt. sanctions big corporations at the expense of the people and their health.

Iowa has very high incidences of lead poisoning in children from homes that have old paint. It could be one of the highest in the nation (not sure on that). Otherwise people here enjoy a fairly good standard of living if both partners work as wages are low. The minimum wage is $7.50 per hour with 2 weeks vacation a year and very few public holidays.

Iowa also has the least miniorities and the worst stats in the USA for education and employment. The State govt. has quietly paid out millions of dollars in compensation to agrieved workers. Iowans are still coming to terms with many issues that they didn't know about. We have a newspaper with a social conscience in this state that is working on exposing the bad.

Mould, lots of mould, deadly mould infact and of course we had the big floods last year to add to it. With our basements come all kinds of issues. Lots of homeless people living along the downtown rivers. Lots of things going on here.

They can't or won't pass laws here for motorcyclists to wear helmets, it's an Iowa thing! Many out of state people complain about the police force and the way they handle things. Police can shoot anyone and pass an inquiry!

Where in NZ do you live?

I think there are ignorant people wherever we go in life! I'm surrounded by them here too! I know more about Iowa history than alot I've met.

My stepkids school teacher talked about travelling Europe and all the angry people that assailed her with anti-American rhetoric. Consequently, she is not interested in travelling again. I don't blame her. The world is not happy with the USA right now. Everyone is hoping that the Obama administration makes a difference!

From what I've learnt, New Zealand isn't adept or educated in the ways of employing migrant labour, therefore many who have been coming over on a working visa or work to live visa's have fared poorly. I was told by another Kiwi over here that lived in Henderson, Auckland, that it is improving. His wife is an Iowan and they lived there until 1995 and then moved back to Iowa. His wife was missing her family intensely. Now how much of that was because of issues like your own I don't know.

If you want protection then joining a union or a collective contract will give you protection. The race relations concilliator is also another avenue to go. The difference in the two systems is that America is set up for litigation, whereas NZ and other commonwealth countries are not.

My husband works for WFF who's head office is based in Iowa. He has risen from being a CS associate to supervisor to currently grooming for management! He has had a bump in the road along the way in the last 9 years to finally finding a good manager that hasn't burned him as yet. This husband of mine is a consistent no. 5 on the scale of work performance, the highest you can get.

Although WFF whose executive office is based in San Franciso (in my view far more advanced thinking than the average insular Iowan) pushes diversity and even allows insurance coverage for same-sex partners, Iowans still struggle to meet the company philosphy. Therefore, most management is white, tall and similar!

Yeah, there's alot of scope for advancement and yes WFF offers many opportunities for women and minorities. I can't say that other companies are the same but the professionalism at WFf is wonderful.

I have to say that when I got here I was stunned by the sheer size of everything. Even taxing in from the runway at LAX took ages! That was the biggest impact on me, the size of everything. It's amazing and makes NZ seem to small.

I have friends over here readying to make the move to NZ. She is a kiwi by birth, her mother married a navy man and has lived in the states for 30 years. Her husband is in the environmental field (American) and they have travelled back to NZ twice. He is inlove with the place because of it's natural, untouched state. I hope that they will be okay after reading these stories. She is doing her last year in a masters degree in communications and should do well if she wants to work too.

I have no Iowan friends except for my husband's as most Iowans keep their friends from school and don't open their homes to new comers. There have been articles about this from other Americans moving to Iowa for work. I'm happy to have found recently, that there are quite a few Kiwis living here, and we are all hanging out for companionship with people like ourselves.

I think it's a universal thing! Sounds like you've moved out of NZ and back in your country of origin. Are you looking at trying out another country?

I think that person got a red card, probably left the forum.

Iowa would be a hard place to be a foreigner! Very insular, everyone hangs out with their families and old school mates. Definitely not like Boston or some place like that! Many Yanks who came to NZ from quiet little small-town places found the same thing about NZ though. You'd think that moving from one insular place to another, one would be "used to the feel of it" - but it's actually the opposite. Hard to go from an enclave kind of place to another enclave (not your own). There were threads on EE, "the types of people who do well here", "the types of people who don't do well here" and small-town people generally do NOT do as well in NZ. Think about how your partner will fare ripped out of a support network where he has received a lot of praise, recognition and reinforcement. Having none of that and maybe even the opposite might be hard?

Moving here did nothing for my marriage - on his home field, he simply felt "freer to function at a lower level" and become a floating passenger instead of working. I know a few other migrant partners who have had the same problem here. Importing an ox or life support system for yourself in your home country doesn't mean the ox can be loaded up with tons of burden and left to fend for itself. All the more so in an environment in which it is out of synch. Migrants don't "like" to work harder - they work out of a sense of wanting to hold their end up in society.

Americans are on the receiving end of a lot of "enlightenment" from people abroad about the crimes of their government. This accomplishes nothing and just makes interpersonal relations tedious - to be lectured about something they can't do anything about. I think many Americans are just working hard and trying to get by, like me, and they don't actually have much control over their government. Worse, they are too trusting of the media and motivations of the players, and don't seek out alternative information sources enough.

I imagine it's hard being a Kiwi in Iowa - might be hard for your partner to be in NZ though, too. You might read the "workplace bullying" and "bait and switch employer practices" and "no NZ qualifications" problems, among others, before your partner gets a job down here so that he's prepared for the fact that the atmosphere might not be as familiar and warm-fuzzy down here for him. (cough)

The stepkids might not like it in the schools down here. My kids sure didn't - they caught it in the neck. If you guys have a kid of your own down here and then bust up, the courts are expensive and slow. That's good or bad, depending on what side you're on. If you can drag things out for home field advantage and get legal aid, sweeeeeeeeeeeet.

Sounds like the humidity in the houses won't be any big change though eh! Ugh! No basements here, so you don't have those lovely sump pumps and muck at the bottoms of cellars to shovel out...

Hope this helps you make a decision that works for you - I think that is why you are here, trying to suss out what it would be like if you dragged your partner down here. I think it really depends on the sort of person he is. He might be right for the place!

Actually you summed it up wrong! I'm not on here to suss our how it would be if we moved back home. My husband simply won't leave Iowa! He sees his future with WFF and just isn't the type to emigrate! The man won't even go south for fear of the local yokels and racism! He puts up with enough in Iowa, however they are very civilized about their racistness (is there such a word?).

What I find hardest is being away from my adult children and my grandchildren. I'm missing out on heaps of stuff. Can't wait to get home end of March to catch up with everyone.

I actually thought this was a site for expat Kiwi's but it appears not! Now I'm kind of trying to point out here that immigrants anywhere in the world probably experience the same things. You probably never knew any immigrants before you moved except to say hi in the hallways. Just how much time did you ever spend wondering about the life of an immigrant before you became one?

I think that white folk may find it even harder being on the end of discrimination in their lives for the very first time. Those of us that are mixed race or non-white experience adversity from very early on and learn to deal with it or lose!

I have learnt not to upset the natives as they tend to rise up and bite back harder!

Just brown nose it and find people of your own kind to hang out with and b***!

true both places, yeah.

Good point. Not enough, and because it was "New Zealand" rather than Brazil (say) I guess I thought there would be more things the same.

Is why I'm posting on here because I'm an immigrant too and feeling the same way. I just want to let you all know that I have told people that until I became an immigrant I truly never understood how it was to be one.

So now that I have experienced this I am always offering a smile and make conversation with anyone that seems like me. I want to let them know that I see them and I'm not afraid to say hello or to dimiss them offhand as probably non-english speaking. I'm always being told by others "don't bother talking to them they don't speak English". I just say it doesn't matter, I just want to say hello and let them know they are welcome!

For all the immigrants out there that I ever dismissed by thinking "If you don't like it, go home", I want to tell them I'm sorry. I understand now just how hard it is.

I have gotten some serious perspective on that too, living here. I now go out of my way to make friends with people I might not have bothered with back home, and it has been very rewarding.

Where you live in Iowa makes a difference. By WFF I'm guessing you may mean Wells Fargo Financial. If so, I suspect you may live in or near Des Moines. I moved to Des Moines Iowa for a while many years ago. I found folks in Des Moines like most other folks from the Mid West. In general, they organize friendships around work, family, school connections, religion, and special interests. If you don't establish friends through work and you are religious, your church ought to provide a network. If you aren't religious, I suggest joining one or more special interest organizations. If you like to sew or quilt, join something like a quilting club. If you like photography, join a photography club. If you have time and interest, volunteer with a charity. Maybe you might like joining a square dance club. If you can make common interest, you should be able to make good friends.

Iowa is a slightly liberal island near the coast of a large sea of conservative thought.

_________________
No matter where you go...there you are.

That is just NOT the case. I have been an "immigrant" a few times and NZ is the worst experience I have ever had. The NZ move was not economic, or employment related but rather out of love and respect for an aging mother-in-law - who has since been killed by the healthcare system in NZ. Mind you, due to that ACC did pay for the funeral, but I do wish I could have sued a few sorry a**es - if for no other reason but to ensure the rampant incompetence is made public. Unfortunately, incompetence is defined in NZ as "she'll be right" and/or a "#8 wire fix-up"." In plain english Kiwi's expect and almost demand incompetence in everything IMO.

My next move is back to the USA and thru organizations I belong to I have folks emailing and calling me now asking when will I be there. This is a move to somewhere I have NEVER lived before yet folks are waiting to welcome me and use my skills and abilities! Further, as you may have guessed, I am not American and as such I am clearly defined as being culturally different and an immigrant.

You may want to note 2 things Khar59; those being:

1. My wife, a kiwi, lived 30+ years in North America. In that time we knew many succeessful Kiwi's who tried to return to NZ to live. Of those who actually moved, NONE STAYED, and all are more harsh about NZ that I am.

2. My Kiwi wife is more harsh about NZ being 3rd world than I am. Mind you, she was educated (undergrad degrees in North America - not the NZ boxtop variety) and was successful in North America.

NZ is not a nice place for anyone to come to and interestingly 1 of 4 people born in NZ leave never to return. It is the most polluted place I have lived and the best example I have ever seen of incompetence run rampant in every sphere of endeavour.

As an aside, I deal with WFF and their service is great. Offshore I also deal with HSBC and their service nowhere near matched WFF. As for NZ institutions, they fall into my description in the paragraph preceding this one.

_________________
_______________

"Pineapple lumps" ... just about sums up NZ's real place in the world

Yes, I have to say that I have seen many a successful Kiwi that lives overseas saying they would never come back to live. However, none of my adult kids will move out of NZ.

Yes, we do live in Des Moines and the place has grown alot in the ten years I've been here. More immigrants coming in and more people from out of state. The place needed to change, it was so backward before that. It's a good place to bring up kids!

I joined WFF just after I arrived here as it was the only international bank that I could find. We get good service from them. I like anything that is accessible on the internet. You can do everything online. The employee benefits are good and we are just in the process of refinancing our mortgage with them. Very easygoing attitude toward employees and loans.

I would go home tomorrow just to be with my kids and grandchildren. You can't replace family and I hate missing out on the grandkids. I think that financially I am better off here. But then life was pretty good for me in NZ as well. We'd owned 3 homes and built the last one. The cost of insurances and things are alot cheaper in NZ.

You're from Christchurch, right? Lived there for decades before moving to Des Moines, IA, if I remember your other posts correctly.

I spent a number of periods, anywhere from a few days to 6 months, in Des Moines between 1998 and 2006. My husband grew up there. His parents live there part-time, and his sister and her family full-time.

I don't usually take issue with individual poster's comparative characterizations. But I plead the jaw-dropping dissonance of a Christchurchian calling Des Moines "backward" in making an exception.

Does your home manage to keep out the -20C cold of Iowa winter? How about -10C? Is your broadband package 'capped" at 5G? 1G? How many hours do you have to work before you can pay for your monthly broadband fee? Do you have people drag-racing on your block at night, without the police impounding their souped-up cars or taking away their licenses?

Did you have to strike education and experience off your resume, to get a job? Were you promised a certain salary when hired, then arrived in Des Moines to be told 'nope, we're not giving you that much, take it or leave it'? Did anyone ever put a Kiwi flag in a noose above your desk as a joke?

Do you see young men with shaved heads, swastika tattoos and white supremacist rock band T-shirts on the promenade of Gray's Lake, without anyone standing up to them? Are your Asian neighbors called "Chink" on the street and hit with water balloons? Does the Des Moines Register (15 Pulitzers) consistently describe Muslim or Asian Iowans—and only them—by their faith or ethnicity for no discernible journalistic reason? What would happen to your professional and social life if you said "Never trust anyone you can blindfold with a shoelace"? How about "you can always tell an Asian's house by the dirty grease stain"?

I will take Des Moines over New Zealand any day, in a heartbeat, faster than you can say "5 hour drive to Chicago". The suggestion that Minnesota Nice/Iowa Stubborn can even begin to compare to what Christchurchians in particular and many Kiwis in general dished out to me shows how wide the gulf is between us.

I don't know what kind of an introduction you had to this board. I hope you've looked at the older, more substantive threads, which detail the kind of deception and abuse migrants—skilled migrants from privileged countries at that—have endured in New Zealand. The older threads in "Weekly Topics" would be a good place to start, as are threads in "Features" and "My Stories". But speaking as a co-founder of the board and the official target for the media ire, I don't think you understand the kind of extremes that forced the creation of this high-maintenance project.

So first, let me introduce myself. My name is Agness Kaku. Every kind of convenient invalidation that the critics of this site have thrown at me, I don't fit. I've traveled to over 30 nations and have lived in 11 cities in 8 countries. I've walked the walk of "cultural differences" and "when in Rome" since birth, unlike a vast majority of these critics. People were always looking at our family, because except in 2 of those countries, we looked too different. People sometimes stared, and occasionally they were cruel. Fair or not, how we—a couple with 3 young children—behaved would be the impression of Japan and Asia for many of the Europeans, South American and Africans watching us. I remember standing up straight in the wilting sun and keeping the heels of my navy-blue Mary Janes together, mindful that (whether we liked it or not), we were representing our country. That was in Rome, 1984. I was 10.

I didn't go around advertising the downsides of Italy. Or Tanzania. Or Denmark. Or Brazil. Or even Canada, where I spent 5 years eating my heart out in a Prairie city whose claim to fame is several rock stars who left for good as soon as they had enough antifreeze in the engine and strings on their guitars.

Accept it or not, New Zealand held enough nasty surprises for someone like me to withdraw from a lifelong "cultural differences" compact. I will offer it again when NZ cares, or is forced by consumer opinion, to honestly present itself as an underperforming economy with desperately outdated infrastructure, hemmed in by a brain drain, racial tensions and culture of laddishness. When it chooses to abandon the spin and just ask all the hardworking migrants "please, will you move here and turn this country around?"

_________________
Fear not, my next branding campaign will make everything all right.

Well then you should come rushing back to Des Moines and see how much it has changed in the last 10 years!

You'll be amazed at how much more there is to offer! Speak to other Americans that have moved from other states! They'll tell you the same!